What OS X Could Learn From Windows: Part 2, A Consistent GUI

by Hadley Stern Aug 19, 2005

After Chris Howard’s great piece a couple of weeks ago I thought I’d continue to stir the pot a little and discuss another aspect of the GUI that Windows does better. Yes, I realize, in some circles this is sacrilege. But just because this site is called Apple Matters doesn’t mean that Microsoft doesn’t matter. Of course, it is my opinion that Apple, for the most part, makes eminently superior products, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t things within the Windows universe that we can’t learn from.

And one of those things is how Windows handles, well, windows. In OS X some interface elements have curves, other do not. For example, the top toolbar in Photoshop is nice and straight-edged, but the document window itself has curved edges. This is and of itself is bothersome, but what drives me more bonkers is that windows don’t automatically line up perfectly with other elements of the Application GUI.

Now let’s take a look at Windows. One of the things that I like about Windows is that elements of the GUI fit in nicely together. They may not have as much “fit and finish” (otherwise know, somewhat disparagingly, as eye-candy) but when you maximize a window in Windows everything lines up perfectly. This is also a consistent behavior from application to application whereas in OS X things are not consistent. For example, in Microsoft Word when you hit the Maximize (or plus sign) button the document tucks in to the left. In Photoshop the document goes to a hundred percent and stays wherever it is on the Window.

Other examples of GUI inconsistencies abound on OS X. And it wasn’t always this way on the Mac. The Classic operating system, at least from a random use of curves standpoint, was much more consistent. What do you think, does the way OS X handles windows compared to Windows bother you?

Comments

  • BadBeaver - ROFLMAO :D

    Chris Howard had this to say on Aug 19, 2005 Posts: 1209
  • Command-click on a Dock icon. You get a context menu

    Still having a hard time with command and control, huh?  wink Ctrl-clicking is what gives you a contextual menu.  Cmd-clicking on a dock icon will reveal that application in the Finder.

    lavar78 had this to say on Aug 19, 2005 Posts: 38
  • Surprising the comments are few thus far. They are right on though. I’m not sure I follow the whole windows lining up thing but my guess is you like that windows makes maximized documents appear as though they are part of the app. I think that’s a matter of taste and I do like the more 3d effect that OS X has.

    Well, I am dismayed at the entire metaphor they’ve picked. It’s far from consistent.

    Try opening two Excel Documents & two Word Docs. Click the app close button bigger red X on Word & it closes one doc. Do that on Excel. It closes both. Inconsistencies like that abound. I also find their “properties pane” tiny size maddening. Try setting preferences in Outlook. It’s a wild goose chase (use help!) resulting in layers on layers of those idiotic things.

    As for Word on the Mac, I refuse to give M$ one cent so I would not know how zoom works.

    I imagine the heritage of X and XP play in this a lot. For zoom, it’s likely a Carbon vs Cocoa thing (Carbon: programmer do it all—nearly—it’s changing; Cocoa: Apple handles things for you due to Object Oriented Programming). In XP, they have legacy issues as well though I don’t understand the Word vs Excel close nor the itty bitty panes.

    I do feel that OS X has a much less cluttered feel than 9.

    I have lots of rants for both platforms (well, all three: 9, X, XP). My list for Windows is MUCH longer. One also needs to keep in mind that Apple is coding at a furious (insane?) pace. Issues like this are a result. I’m in awe at what they can turn out. The days of a solid x.0 release are long gone.

    I’m a power user of 9 (fading fast though it fit like a glove as it was my only for so many years), X, and XP (shudder, but I had to in order to make it more tolerable).

    pecosbill had this to say on Aug 19, 2005 Posts: 12
  • Again I feel this instant relief about not having to use Office.

    Bad Beaver had this to say on Aug 20, 2005 Posts: 371
  • If you made a rule for the “What OS X could learn from Windows” articles that made it illegal to post a) what Windows could actually learn from OS X or b) the sycophantic defense to any and all critiques of OS X, you’d have no posts in this thread.

    That said, I must admit that the consistency of the windows and round corners vs. square is a minor issue.  One of the bigger things I actually prefer in the Mac is the small footprint of the interface.  With a few exceptions (the I-life suite), the windows on the Mac have no borders like Windows apps do.  And yes, those borders add up to some valuable desktop real estate.  I’ve always prefered that to the Windows interface.

    But what can OS X learn from Windows?  In Windows, a folder icon in Explorer previews the contents of what’s in the folder on the icon.  This is very handy, particularly for photos.  And since the zealots have vehemently defended every lack of features in OS X but THAT one, I’m guessing it’s only a matter of time before Apple adds it to OS X.  And it would be much welcomed.

    Beeblebrox had this to say on Aug 20, 2005 Posts: 2220
  • I’m one of those people who didn’t like the Dock when it first was introduced but I’ve grown to use it constantly. I often might have 20 or 30 open folders on the right hand side, and use CMD-OPT-M a lot.

    I do very much dislike the way the System handles open folders in the Dock after log-out or a restart. Every folder & file gets thrown out of the Dock and all the windows are open!

    Why can’t they all just go back into the Dock exactly as they were organized, instead of emerging BACKWARDS (reverse order) and getting tossed out? This is why I use CMD-OPT-M a lot.

    mapple had this to say on Aug 20, 2005 Posts: 4
  • Oddly enough, I prefer the Dock in OS X and the taskbar in Windows.  Windows is customizable enough that I can use a third party Dock if I want to.  I even tried it, but I just didn’t care for it.  I prefer using the default interface on both systems.

    Here’s another little annoyance in OS X.  Windows will automatically maximize the app I choose from Alt-tab.  For some reason, OS X doesn’t do this.  If Finder is minimized and I alt-tab to it, it stays minimized.  I can’t think of any reason why you’d want that.  If I’m switching apps, then obviously I want to SEE the app I’ve switched to.

    Beeblebrox had this to say on Aug 20, 2005 Posts: 2220
  • I actually like this feature… most of the time I want to switch to an app without it opening up docked windows. This is especially the case when switching to safari to start a new web browse. I browse in window themes, i.e. I will contain all browsing to one subject in a window then use tabs within that for the individual pages. when I want to start a new “topic” it’s annoying if docked windows pop up when I switch to safari.

    Here’s the difference as far as I can see: Apple+tabbing doesn’t open docked windows, however clicking on the dock icon to switch to the application will. I used to click on the app in the dock to switch to it and hated how stuff always came up even though i’d minimised it coz I didn’t want to see it. Then Apple implemented proper application switching \o/

    moof had this to say on Aug 22, 2005 Posts: 1
  • the sycophantic defense to any and all critiques of OS X

    You still appear to make wild accusations of zealotry without hard evidence.  Almost every post I’ve seen here has some “I like this, but would like to see this changed” opinion.  Does a statement like “I like this or that feature” count as sycophantic?

    Does that mean if I say “I like pizza,”  I’m now a pizza zealout?

    vb_baysider had this to say on Aug 22, 2005 Posts: 243
  • And one of those things is how Windows handles, well, windows. In OS X some interface elements have curves, other do not. For example, the top toolbar in Photoshop is nice and straight-edged, but the document window itself has curved edges.

    Each window type has a different title bar shape so you can identify their behavior visually (you don’t have to guess how they will react.)

    Windows with square edged title bars are utility windows that are hidden when it’s parent app looses focus and do not steal focus from the main window when clicked. They are often used for pallets in applications such as Photoshop and Word. Document or utility windows with rounded title bars, such as the finders “Get Info” window, are not hidden when their parent application and gain focus when clicked.

    [Maximize in Windows] is also a consistent behavior from application to application whereas in OS X things are not consistent. For example, in Microsoft Word when you hit the Maximize (or plus sign) button the document tucks in to the left. In Photoshop the document goes to a hundred percent and stays wherever it is on the Window.

    You’re assuming that because the button is in the same place as the Maximize control in Windows that it should behave like a Maximize control in Windows. On Mac OS, it’s called the “Zoom” button and it’s job is to resize the window to fit the contents of the window. This is consistent with the behavior you described in both Word and Photoshop.

    - If you select “Keep in Dock”, it changes to “Remove from Dock”
    -If you select “Open at Login”, it places a tick in front of it.
    Why can’t they both exhibit the same behavior?

    “Remove from Dock” is an action that happens immediately, as is it’s counterpart, “Keep in Dock”. “Open at Login” is a property of the application that is evaluated at log-in and does not have a counterpart action (“Do not open at login”?) This is similar to “Show grid” or “Bold” which is traditionally indicated with a check-mark.

    Here’s a few of my issues with the Mac OS X GUI…

    - Folders added to the dock all look the same unless they have a custom icon. Unless you memorize their order, you have to wave your cursor over them to tell them apart. 

    - The main menu bar is only accessible on the primary display. If you need to access a menu item for a window on the secondary display, you need to move your mouse to the primary display, select the menu item, then move your cursor back to the secondary display. (Although, I’d rather have this annoyance than have menus attached to each window)

    - The Finder should ditch the legacy (non metal) Mac OS view and the chicklet in the upper right that lets you switch back and forth. It’s redundant since the “Icon View” with sidebar does the same thing.

    Another problem with Mac OS X is the different behavior between Carbon (classic Mac OS) and Cocoa applications (based on the NeXT frameworks). While Apple has done a great job allowing continued development of both frameworks, Carbon applications lack support for advanced keyboard navigation and behave slightly different in some situations. (for example, you can move a window in a Cocoa application, even if it’s displaying a model dialog or is busy processing, which can be very handy)

    This really isn’t Apple’s fault, but remains an issue since developers such as Adobe and Microsoft have not (and may never) port their applications from Carbon to Cocoa.

    Scott had this to say on Aug 22, 2005 Posts: 144
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